Above The Law - Thinking Like A Lawyer

Joe and Kathryn do another rapidfire rundown of the biggest stories in legal news this week. Bar exam horror stories! Jones Day's salary and discrimination suit woes! The imminent collapse of a national Biglaw firm! All that and more. Plus sound effects!!!

Joe and Elie watched some of these hearings everyone's talking about and break down some of the key legal issues that got lost in the spectacle. This is just what happens when a careful, conscientious attorney tries to talk to a bunch of local dry cleaner magnates who've managed to fall backward into Congress and then it all gets ciphered by talking heads churning a 24-hour news cycle.

Joe and Elie react to the news that UPenn Law School's Amy Wax has stepped up her efforts to be noticed by right-wing media by appearing at a "nationalism" conference and explicitly stating, that America would be "better off with more whites and fewer nonwhites." Who is this Amy Wax person, and why does she still have a job at this point? The answer is a toxic blend of tenure and cowardice.

Joe and Elie discuss Alex Acosta's resignation, Alan Dershowitz's underwear and more while covering the lawyers whose careers could end up demolished by their proximity to the Jeffrey Epstein. At every step lawyers enabled Epstein and as the SDNY brings new charges against him, a lot of lawyers are starting to face the music. Special thanks to our sponsor, Smith.ai.

People like to talk about Merrick Garland's stolen seat and Keggy McAssaulterton's dubious ascent to the Supreme Court, but people are largely sleeping on the lower courts that have been systematically restocked with FedSoc Pizza Managers. Elie, working on a big upcoming piece on this subject in The Nation, shares some of his thoughts on the state of the judicial system. Special thanks to our sponsor, Smith.ai.

Joe and Elie are off for the Independence Day holiday but wanted to leave you with something to listen to while you enjoy your holiday. Last year, we spoke with Vanderbilt Law School’s Associate Director of Career Services Nick Alexiou to discuss the on-campus interviewing process. A good guide for those of you preparing for the interview of your lives. Special thanks to our sponsor, Smith.ai.

Admissions consultant Hanna Stotland stops by to talk about Kyle Kashuv's now-revoked Harvard admission -- why it was the right move for Harvard and where Kashuv can go from here. Stotland's practice focuses on students facing admissions hurdles -- generally of their own making. We discuss Kashuv's case, Title IX, and why it might be easier to get back on track as a former drug addict. Special thanks to our sponsor, Smith.ai.

 Joe and Kathryn have a freewheeling chat about legal news, which is a more professional way of saying they improvised for 30 minutes after Elie Mystal overslept and failed to show up for the scheduled recording. Above the Law is basically a late-stage rock band. But the pair carry on and discuss Alan Dershowitz bumbling through the early stages of the defamation case he's asked for, Brett Kavanaugh's Supreme Court clerk hiring, Alabama Law School throwing away millions, and many more of the week's screwups. Special thanks to our sponsor, Smith.ai.

Joe and Elie chat with Ryan Steadman of Zero about legal technology and how to drive adoption among a profession that's notoriously averse to tech. Zero manages email retention by automatically filing communications with the help of a practical AI system -- the sort of inbox management that used to require an afternoon of labor or setting up a million rules. Ultimately, the key to legal tech adoption may be gravitating toward the familiar rather than loading up on flash. Special thanks to our sponsor, Smith.ai.

With all the Biglaw news to cover, we sometimes forget about the high-stakes plaintiffs' side firms out there. So this week, we're checking in with Jay Edelson of Edelson, a "plaintiffs' class action powerhouse," as Law360 puts it, involved in matters as disparate as electronic privacy, college football safety, and the California wildfires. Edelson also talks about one of the all-time law firm pranks he pulled off... Special thanks to our sponsor, Smith.ai.

Elie remains missing in action (crying about Game of Thrones) so Joe and Kathryn are left to do another ESPN inspired legal podcast -- do not encourage these two to do 45 minutes of NFL takes as if teams are SCOTUS justices.   So this is "Around the Gavel." Some new takes and a different sound effect or two because we've heard the air horn is problematic on a freeway, Sorry.

Elie is out of town, so Joe and guest host Kathryn Rubino take a page out of ESPN's playbook and offer a PTI-inspired roundup of the week's legal news items in short, two-minute bursts. There's even an air horn. Special thanks to our sponsor, Smith.ai.

Joe and Elie continue to offer their answers on questions they've received from prospective law students asking “where should I go to school?” Balancing regional offers? Trying to decide what market to practice in? Choosing between the murky world of "just below T14"? Tune in and hear our advice on how to properly manage the law school adventure. Special thanks to our sponsor, Smith.ai.

We finally set aside some time to discuss the questions we've received from prospective law students asking "where should I go to school?" Choosing between T14 heavies? We can handle that. Weighing different scholarship packages? We've got that too. Tune in and hear our advice on how to properly manage the law school adventure. Special thanks to our sponsor, Smith.ai.

Kathryn Rubino joins Joe to discuss the recent lowlights in Biglaw gender equity. From MoFo's curious strategic response to allegations that it maintains a "mommy track" for female career advancement to Jones Day... doing Jones Day stuff, women are still struggling to get an even shake when it comes to major law firms. Special thanks to our sponsor, Smith.ai.

After George Conway's most recent salvo against Donald Trump, Joe and Elie discuss the curious relationship of the senior Wachtell lawyer and Trump's senior aide. Is it possible that lawyers make for more harmonious relationships? The gang also discusses the Mueller Report one day before its release. See how the predictions match up with reality! Special thanks to our sponsor, Smith.ai.

Let’s just talk about this college admissions scandal shall we? While everyone else is talking about Aunt Becky, Willkie Farr’s co-Managing Partner (and former Thinking Like A Lawyer guest) Gordon Caplan is also caught up in this whole scandal. Special thanks to our sponsor, Smith.ai.

Jerry Buting and former Jefferson Parish prosecutor Jackie Maloney square off for a heated debate about the prosecution versus defense and how the portrayals on FOX TV’s ‘Proven Innocent’ compare to reality.

The US News and World Report law school rankings have been leaked, and the gang breaks down who's on top and who's making big moves -- both good and bad -- in this year's rankings. Joe and Elie also have an extended discussion about racist cars, specifically what to make of a new report suggesting that self-driving cars are more likely to strike African-American pedestrians. Special thanks to our sponsor, Smith.ai.

As a special bonus, Joe and Elie are doing a series of podcasts about FOX’s new legal drama “Proven Innocent”. In this second installment, we speak with show creator and Stanford Law graduate David Elliot, California Innocence Project lawyer Michael Semanchik, and exoneree Jason Strong, who spent 15 years in prison for a crime he didn’t commit. “Proven Innocent” airs Fridays at 9/8c on FOX.