Utah Avalanche Center Podcast

In the spring of 1971, Don Bachman walked into the mining town of Silverton, Colorado, with a mission, not quite from God, but from the federal government: Study avalanches in the San Juan Mountains. The Bureau of Reclamation had recently established a cloud-seeding program in the region, and it was Bachman’s job—as part of a veritable ‘Murderers Row’ of snow science pioneers—to map and study the avalanche problem in the area and get a sense of how it would be impacted by atmospheric tampering. Bachman joins us to talk about the project and how conservative decision making in the backcountry can lead to a long life in the snowy mountains.

On the morning of February 6, two different groups totaing eight people went to ski in the Wilson Glade area of Alexander Basin in Millcreek Canyon. Both groups were ascending when the avalanche happened. Six people were caught and fully buried. Two of them survived. Four did not. In this episode, we break down what happened in this tragic accident. Drew is joined by UAC forecasters Nikki Champion and Trent Meisenheimer, and Alta Avalanche Office Director Dave Richards.

In this episode, we sit down with Dr. Scott McIntosh and Black Diamond's Andy Merriman to talk about, well first, good decision making, but then, in the event you get caught in an avalanche, how and why an airbag can potentially help you avoid the worst consequences. In particular, we're taking about BD's innovative JetForce Pro Avalanche Airbag. A study conducted by Dr. McIntosh et al. suggests the JetForce Pro pack could delay asphyxia, buying buried backcountry users valuable additional time for rescue.

Jeff Hambleton works with avalanche professionals from around the world and across disciplines to build avalanche education tools and train the next generation. In this episode: connecting to your audience; culture-shift after the Valentine’s Day slide of ‘99 at Mt Baker and the Danny Woods avalanche of 2008; effecting deeper change through social clubs; zone-based comms strategies; the value of simple rules; industry efforts to educate users; the future of motorized safety education.

Could our evolutionary history help explain why we enjoy putting our lives at risk?

Dr. Angela Dunn is the State Epidemiologist for the Utah Department of Health. In this episode: messaging the problem as you're learning about it; public safety and risk guidelines; cascading risks; marketing problems; the risk/reward balancing act; the single overriding communications objective; effecting behavior change; sticky messaging; culture eats strategy for breakfast; irreproducible accents.  

We're all in this together.

Sarah Carpenter is a co-owner of the American Avalanche Institute and a ski guide in the Tetons. In this episode: Giving backcountry users the keys to the castle; the evolution of avalanche education; snow science as equal parts science and voodoo magic; education vs air bag; checklists and systems for safety; sharing stories when you get it wrong; Don Carpenter and the qualities of good backcountry partners; and painting!

Blase Reardon has been a backcountry avalanche forecaster in Ketchum, Aspen, Glacier National Park, and is now the lead forecaster for the Flathead Avalanche Center in northern Montana. On tap this episode: forecasting in data-sparse regions; the mysteries of wet snow; Mr. Magoo's close calls, wicked learning environments & the illusion of expertise; the need for increased feedback; The Snowy Torrents; accident reports; the forecaster's role; and how best to progress your backcountry know-how.

How is that we learn good lessons that we mind for a while before drifting into failure once again? Hint: It has to do with heuristics.

In the avalanche world, UAC forecaster Trent Meisenheimer is at the forefront of storytelling and communication through the use of video. Trent uses high-def cameras, drones, and cutting-edge video software to communicate the visceral realities of a field day in avalanche terrain or a recent avalanche accident. He's also the wunderkind director of the Know Before You Go video, and "To Hell in a Heartbeat," among others. Trent joins us to talk about the art of storytelling through film.

Here's a question: What's the goal of forecasting? Economist Peter Donner and meteorologist Larry Dunn are both retired from their respective careers predicting the future, and they join Drew to share what they know about the intricacies of forecasting. It may sound dry, but the economic concepts of gain and loss, risk and reward shape good decision making in the backcountry. So, what's the goal of forecasting: accuracy or outcomes? How do you impact decision making--not to mention your reputation--with forecasts that overly cautious or not cautious enough? And how do you minimize risk when out on a tour?

In this podcast, we sit down with Doug Workman. An alpine guide, Doug is the real deal when it comes international ski guiding. He's been taking risks on the snow since he was a toddler learning to ski at Powder Ridge in Connecticut. Since then, he has found many other places to experiment with risk and risk management: Alaska, Pakistan, Iceland, China, Morocco, Svalbard, Antarctica, and right in his backyard, the Tetons. He makes his home in Jackson, Wyoming with his wife and two children where he works as a Mountain Guide and Avalanche Program Manager for Mammut North America.

What does a Eastern Utah rancher have in common with the risks of backcountry touring?

During the day, Jenna Malone is a physicians assistant, but she moonlights as a ski patroller at Alta, a Powderbird guide, and an instructor with AAI. At this fall's Utah Snow and Avalanche Workshop, she gave a compelling presentation on why avalanche decision making is more like poker than chess. The difference is in the levels of certainty and the information available to the players. Inspired by champion poker player Annie Duke's book Thinking in Bets, Jenna discusses how we make decisions in avalanche terrain, knowing that in this game, the stakes are our very lives.

What I want to know is this: Do we make a deal with Death when we play games with risk?

It's key to head into the early avalanche season with the proper mindset. In this podcast, we talk with UAC program director Bo Torrey. Bo talks about particular risks unique to the early season, tips and tricks for knocking the rust off your early season rescue skills, and charts out the path forward to avalanche education.

On Saturday, January 5, the danger rating in the Salt Lake area went Low. As you'd expect, people got out after it. By the end of the day there were eight skier-triggered avalanches, with four people caught and carried in separate events, and one visit to the ER. In this episode, we put one of those accidents under the microscope and examine how the forecast affects decision making. Our guests: UAC forecaster Greg Gargne, backcountry skiers Vlad Pascu and Jackie Long, Professor Russ Costa, and researcher Laura Maguire.

In this episode, we sit down with Lynne Wolfe. Lynne is a longtime mountain guide for both Exum and Jackson Hole Mountain Guides. She has taught innumerable avalanche courses for AAI, NOLS, and Yostmark and since 2005 she's been the editor of The Avalanche Review. Discussed in this episode: articles that have helped save lives; Ed LaChapelle's "ascending spiral"; debriefing with purpose; find good ski partners; being a good ski partner; talk about things that matter; Listen!

There's no telling when calamity or injury may strike, so what can you do to make sure you're prepared to act when they do?