Rethink Fragility

For this wrap-up episode we've switched sides of the microphone to interview our host for the last 39 episodes, Ian Quick. (With thanks to Sam Meikle for taking over interviewing duties.) He talks about his formative experiences in the development & conflict management sectors, and why oral history felt like a meaningful contribution at this point in time. We go on to reflect more generally on *why* these stories matter. What do they tell us about who “we” are in public service, and how does this differ from the picture we usually get?  And beyond this, what does this all have to do with big-picture challenges in international cooperation? What does lived experience contribute to change on issues like anti-racism, and structural gaps and blind spots? --- Episode notes: [03:40] Dealing with some rather strange ideas about what he does for a living. [07:05] Early days in western Sydney, Australia. A conviction that mass atrocities and injustices were somehow "un-ignorable". [14:00] Finding entry points into

"The only ethical way of doing this research is to stay involved in a profound manner, & to maintain these friendships and relationships." Judith Verweijen is a researcher who has spent a decade-plus interviewing soldiers and militias in eastern Democratic Republic of the Congo. We talk through what her process looks like, what men under arms actually do all day, and the complex social ecosystem that arises in protracted conflicts. We also talk a lot about the ethics of this work. Not just because many of these groups are implicated in serious human rights violations, but also because there's a long history of "extractive" research originating in the global North. As always there are no easy answers here -- but this a fascinating conversation with someone who's produced a lot of fascinating, granular research. --- Episode notes: [03:45] Pursuing an early interest in Central Africa. Early fascination with what armed groups do, and what lies behind human rights violations. [11:10] How to dig beneath superf

Salma Ben Aissa Braham is a Tunisian humanitarian professional, and currently Country Director for the IRC in the Central African Republic. She spent half of her career (so far!) in her home country, and was entering her prime working years around the time of the 2011 revolution. We talk about that, naturally. We go on to discuss how she's approached her work in large-scale, seemingly intractable crises in C.A.R. and Yemen. Another major theme is the complicated relationship between the global South and the global North within the humanitarian profession. We talk at length about peoples' expectations and biases, and what Salma expects of herself as an Arab, woman professional. --- Show notes: [02:20] Explaining the humanitarian profession to friends and family (despite the stereotypes). Early experiences with international organisations in Tunis. [07:45] Her experience of the 2011 revolution. A change in perspective in the first few months after the flight of Ben Ali. [13:45] Working on democracy promo

Josep is a career humanitarian who's spent 20+ years with UNHCR working with refugees, and on forced displacement. But alongside there's something a bit unusual. That twigged for me personally when we met a few years back in Central Asia -- and he started speaking in Tajik to a local community, despite never having worked in the region. It turned out that alongside a half-dozen European languages he's also invested in Persian and Arabic, and that's kind of the key to this one. What does it take to listen respectfully, and understand, in contexts where you're necessarily an outsider? What does good judgment and decision-making look like in contexts that are often cartoonishly fast-paced? At bottom this is a conversation about professional honesty, and doing the best job you can manage, in complex environments. --- Episode notes: [02:20] Explaining the humanitarian profession to friends and family. Maintaining ties to home over 20+ years. [06:30] Pivoting from a degree in philosophy to international refug

Kathryn Nwajiaku-Dahou is Director of the Politics and Governance Programme at the Overseas Development Institute. Past work has included academic posts, several development NGOs, and the OECD's Development Assistance Committee. With this in mind, it's interesting that the recurring theme of this conversation is a rather ambivalent relationship with the aid sector.  She's worked with some of the marquee names in the sector, but specifically in roles that are critical or reformist in nature. Equally in talking about her work she is conscious of  the seriousness and the stakes of the overall development agenda -- but also of the very real limitations on "development" as a business. In sum this is a conversation about striking that balance -- about finding a niche that is professionally honest, and moves things forward. --- Show notes: [02:40] Early days in the development sector in east and west Africa. Keeping one eye open as someone who development could be “done”. [11:00] Lessons from working around t

Polly Mackenzie is CEO at Demos, a cross-party think tank in the United Kingdom. She's also worked at the centre of government within the 2010-15 coalition, and run a charity focusing on money and mental health. In the current fractious political environment Demos looks at big challenges like wealth inequality, "building back" after covid-19, and social protection for the most marginalised. We talk a lot about how to "do" public policy in a complex democracy -- in particular how to bring more human experience, more everyday behaviour, into the process. But we also go deep on what that means for the people who work in public service. What mindset should we start with? How do we set our ambitions, and sense of self-worth, when we can't possibly control the outcomes? --- Episode notes: [02:25] Talking about public policy at the school gate, or with family. What opens the door to a good conversation, and what closes it. [11:00] Early motivations to work in government, possibly due to too many West Wing epis

Dao X. Tran is Managing Editor of Voice of Witness, which develops oral histories and education programs to amplify the voices of people impacted by injustice. Recent projects have included the aftermath of Hurricane Maria, indigenous Americans, and settlement of refugees in Appalachia. (You can find all their projects at voiceofwitness.org .) We start with her early years in Philadelphia, as a child refugee in a working class neighbourhood split by serious divides, and a path into social justice activism. We then get into the ethics and practice of oral history with marginalised communities. How to select stories that matter; how to centre narrators themselves rather than one’s own agenda; and how to bring this to a wider audience. --- Show notes: [05:45] Growing up in a refugee and working class neighbourhood in Philadelphia. Not seeing those kinds of narratives reflected in education and popular culture. [11:00] Identifying areas where oral history projects can add value. Taking strategic decisions a

Kumekucha is a program to help people process conflict and trauma, and to craft new narratives for themselves. It’s running at the community level in coastal Kenya and Nairobi, for people affected by police brutality, by gang violence, and a whole range of adverse personal circumstances. (I strongly recommend checking out the Green String Network’s channel on Youtube for some of their short participant videos, which speak much more eloquently than I can.) In this episode we hear from two of the people involved. Onyango is an accomplished poet and story-teller, as you’ll hear very quickly, and has been very open about trauma in his own life. Kaltuma is a program manager who is wrapping her head around some very hard questions of design and delivery, and building on a family legacy. --- Show notes: (Onyango Otieno) [02:45] The importance of story-telling around painful experiences. Overcoming his own difficult past. [07:00] The Kumekucha model for helping people to process trauma and develop a new narra

Kate Moger is Regional Vice-President for the Great Lakes region at the International Rescue Committee. She's based in Nairobi, although currently that’s in flux due to COVID-19. We start with her rather interesting route into the sector by way of a dubious Russian travel agency, some traumatic early experiences, and how and where this turned around into a fulfilling career. We then go deep on professionalisation and ethics in the humanitarian sector, and what this means for managing people in the present day. This includes her own experiences caring for a young child, and where the sector still needs to grow away from its macho roots. Show notes: [02:45] Avoiding conversations about her work. Why it’s hard when things tend to get ‘quite deep, quite fast’. [06:25] A trajectory that runs through the UK, South Sudan, DR Congo, Cote d’Ivoire, Mali, and Kenya. But starting off at a questionable Russian travel start-up in a living room. [11:45] Working for deaf-blind people and children at risk in the UK. Stu

(Bonus coronavirus lockdown episode) Ahmed Famau Ahmed is one of the facilitators that works with the “Healing the Uniform” initiative that we discussed in episode #031. But he’s not a career professional. Instead he came into this because of his own history of being arrested, interrogated, and mistreated by the police. In this conversation he talks about his experiences growing up in coastal Kenya, police profiling on the basis of his dialect and appearance, and introducing that perspective to a training room.

Gitahi Kanyeki is a 36-year veteran of the Kenya National Police Service. His career spans operations against cattle rustlers in Turkana, to extraordinary violence in Nairobi after the 2008 elections, to internal action against serious misconduct. That history has entailed more than anyone’s fair share of traumatic experiences, both for him and for his family. In this episode we talk about what that was like to live and work through — and beyond that what can be done, and is being done, for trauma recovery within an institution like the NPS. Our first half is with Gitahi himself, and in the second half we switch perspective to Bonface Beti. He's a program manager with the Green String Network, and he talks very eloquently about design and delivery. He also speaks to the challenges of supporting an institution that is often maligned, within Kenya, and often with good cause. (Our previous episode, 030, was on this very topic.) Taken as a whole this is a reflection on the personal costs and the rewards of

Wangui Kimari is an urban anthropologist, currently affiliated with the African Centre for Cities. She’s done a range of interesting things but this conversation focuses on work in her home town of Nairobi—and in particular the Mathare area, which if you know the city is often labelled as a slum or sort of den of iniquity. The recurring theme is the attempt to do things differently in the face of a stifling, or broken, status quo. What does public authority and urban planning when seen from the point of view of marginalised communities? What questions do those communities themselves want answered, as opposed to those that researchers want to focus on? And once you have some answers, how do they fit into a political conversation that’s been built on the rhetoric of “development” for several generations now? This is a timely episode — not because it is “about” COVID-19, but to equip us to think about distancing & public hygiene as seen from marginalised spaces. What should experiences in the past tell us ab

Donata Garrasi has worked on conflict dynamics for twenty-five years, in a career spanning operational, policy and consulting roles. She presently works as Director of Political Affairs for the UN Special Envoy for the Great Lakes. In one sense this might sound like a straightforward story. But walking through the steps, it really wasn’t. It was a series of self-starting, purposeful and often risky moves to find ways to make a contribution. What drives and sustains that kind of motivation? What happens when it’s frustrated by events on the ground that you can’t control? How does it balance with other aspirations in life? As always, all views are personal and don't reflect anyone's official position. --- Show notes: [00:00] Describing peace and conflict work to the general public. Unexpected sticking points. [05:10] Growing up in Italy with an interest in politics. First steps abroad, from an internship in New York to refugee response in the remotest part of Guinea-Conakry. [12:00] Key learning from ear

Babatunde Afolabi has worked on mediation and conflict transformation in West Africa for pretty much all of his adult life—first at the Economic Community of West African States (ECOWAS), and then with the Center for Humanitarian Dialogue. This experience spans the full range of political conflict: “democratic reversals” and refusals to leave power, military coups, contested elections, the rise of extremist movements, and entrenched sub-national violence. With this as background we get into the nuts and bolts of inter-governmental diplomacy, “private” diplomacy, and the differences between the two. This is informed in part by ’Tunde’s own upbringing under a military regime in Nigeria, and the return to democratic rule in 1999. As always, all views are personal and don't reflect anyone's official position. --- Show notes: [04:30] Education in Ibadan, in south-west Nigeria. Finding his way due to the right mentor figures at the right time. 10:20] Growing up under a military regime, and becoming politicall

Johnny is a photographer and activist who's based in South Africa. (You can find much of his work at millefoto.com.) He’s best-known for his drone photo series Unequal Scenes. These images are striking and almost violent: shanty towns abutting stately suburban homes; a slum wedged in beside a gleaming financial district. In this interview we talk about his broader ambitions to shift the narrative around stark economic inequalities, both in his adopted home of South Africa and further afield. We get into the artistic process of finding and developing images; the personal costs and difficulties that come with provoking debate; and the power of a different way of seeing to give new perspectives on a very old problem. --- Show notes: [04:20] The need for a new narrative around inequality. Difficulties of communicating complex socio-political issues, and learning from the climate action movement. [07:50] The original “lightbulb moment” where drone photography enabled something very familiar to be seen in a co

Preeti Thapa has led community justice and conflict transformation programs in her native Nepal for about sixteen years, working with the Asia Foundation. That experience spans an extraordinarily turbulent period -- the tail end of the Maoist insurgency, a drawn-out and highly contentious transition to multi-party politics, a transformative new constitution, and the 2014-15 earthquake. As a consequence we get into many of the central dilemmas of conflict transformation work. Structural and community-level issues versus the national political drama that captures the international imagination. Informal versus formal mechanisms in meeting aspirations for justice. Progressive social agendas versus working “with the grain”. And not least of all — the experience of women, and women from the global South specifically, in fields that are all too often male-dominated and hierarchical. --- Show notes: [02:50] Community mediation as a process for conflict transformation at the community level. [06:55] The “co-facil

Marc is a journalist who has developed a number of graphic novels with people in extraordinarily tough situations. These include kids affected by conflict in the Central African Republic; returned combatants of the Lord’s Resistance Army in northern Uganda; and people targeted for witchcraft in Nigeria. (You can find his work at http://www.marcellison.com/) We talk about the process of responsibly developing these stories; the importance of developing new approaches on these very complex issues; and the difficulty of finding a market in the traditional media landscape. The common thread throughout is the empathy gap — the difficulty that people have in recognising part of themselves in the toughest times, and the hardest places. --- Show notes: [02:45] Writing graphic novels about serious topics. An overview of his work to date, and a story about visiting an artisanal diamond mine in the Central African Republic. [08:50] Influences including Art Spigelman and Joe Sacco. Combining a technical background

Wale is acting senior director for the governance technical unit within the International Rescue Committee. He works to protect the rights of people affected by crises to influence the political issues that matter to them. (Background link for more on this: https://www.rescue-uk.org/outcome/power.) We talk about getting people to think intelligently about the political context for humanitarian response, how the sector is evolving over time, and a few sacred cows that need to be left behind. We also go in depth on his experience, both good and bad, as a Nigerian working for international organisations in the global North. Show notes: [02:45] Wale’s work with the IRC, and how governance issues fit into in humanitarian/emergency response. [05:10] Growing up in Nigeria in Ibadan and Kaduna. The “bubble” of federal government college, the culture shock of leaving it, and the politics of service delivery. [14:40] What motivated the decision to pursue higher studies. Family expectations, a pivotal visit to a

David is the Africa editor for the Financial Times. In January 2019 his team broke a story on massive fraud in presidential and parliamentary elections in the Democratic Republic of the Congo. The reporting was impressive for its depth, based on the systematic review of leaked electoral data. It was also striking because it was so unusual, following years of superficial and crisis-driven engagement with the DRC by the international press. With that in mind, this episode is about when and how the international press engages with highly marginalised places. We get into how international editors determine what’s newsworthy; the extent to which foreign media can or should act as a “fourth estate” in dysfunctional polities; and the process of getting an explosive story like this one verified and published. Show notes: [00:00] How to set editorial priorities when you’re looking at most of a continent, with limited column space and a small team. [06:35] Looking for stories with wider resonance, alongside those

Gemma pivoted away from a career in programme management and human rights advocacy to undertake a PhD in how we think about stress and meaning in the aid sector. That done, she is now an independent consultant and facilitator on how aid agencies can become more healthy, inclusive and caring work spaces (blog: http://gemmahouldey.com/). With this in hand, we have a conversation that touches on some of the most critical and under-discussed issues in the sector. Show notes: [02:20] Personal experiences in the aid sector and with stress and burnout. How aid workers think privately about what they do, versus public perceptions and the stories we tell. [08:25] The stereotype of the ‘perfect humanitarian’, versus the realities of who is actually doing most of the work. The blind spots that this image creates. Recognising the mix of motivations and circumstances that people bring to the job. [16:20] Cultural and situational differences in how we think about stress and burnout. The risk of designing policies arou