Listen, Learn & Love Hosted By Richard Ostler

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Sinopsis

My name is Richard Ostler (twitter: @papaostler) and am a native of Salt Lake City. I have degrees from the University of Utah and Brigham Young University (business). I married by best friend and eternal companion Sheila Juergens of Houston, Texas in 1990 and we are the parents of six great children and two grandchildren. We live near Cottonwood High School in Salt Lake City and I currently serve as an ordinance worker in the Salt Lake Temple. I believe deeply in Mormonism and want it to work for a wider group.The name Papa Ostler resulting from being introduced to Twitter by my High School age son Matt in 2010. I wanted the high school age kids to know I wasnt their age as I interacted with them hence the name Papa Ostler.I served as a YSA Bishop in the West Valley City/Magna area of Salt Lake (released in 2016) and met some of the finest people I will ever know. In addition to meeting with wonderful active members of my Ward, I reached out and connected via social media (mostly via the private messaging features of FB and Twitter) with many of our inactive members and their non-member friends. Over time, many felt comfortable meeting with me and sharing their stories. Through hundreds of interviews and listening to understand, I was able to see the church from the eyes of those outside of active Mormonism. Many feel Mormonism is their spiritual home but feel uncomfortable attending for a variety of reasons such as work-in-progress testimonies, concerns about church history, feeling unworthy because of past or current sin, don't fit the cultural mold, role of women, are LGBTQ and/or feel God's LGBTQ childen should be more welcomed in our congregations, etc.This podcast, from a deeply believing/committed Mormon, is designed to 'Have a Conversation' about some of the more complicated issues in Mormonism to help all of us 'listen, learn and love' so we can minister in a more effective way to all of Heavenly Fathers children. Some podcasts will me 'going solo' and other podcasts will be guests helping us to better understand God's LGBTQ children as taught by President M. Russell Ballard 'Mormon leaders, along with the rank and file, need to listen to and understand what LGBT members are feeling and experiencing (Nov 2017 BYU Devotional).'With love, Richard 'Papa' Ostler

Episodios

  • Episode 780: Tegan Zelano Blanchard (or “Z”), Recent RM, Bisexual member, Giving Hope to Others

    25/09/2024 Duración: 01h40min

    **This episode talks about suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text/chat 988** My friend Z Blanchard, (lived in Utah, Costa Rica, San Diego and Ecuador; Argentina RM; attending UVU in Utah; age 21) joins us to share his story as a bisexual member of the Church of Jesus Christ out of his heartfelt desire to give hope to others. Z (youngest of four siblings, with three older sisters) begins by giving insights into what it was like to grow up with the cognitive dissonance of being attracted to men while remaining very active in the church of Jesus Christ. While he loved (and continues to love) the gospel, he gives insights into struggles such as the constant pressure to come out to his loved ones, internalized homophobia, and self-hate, as he threw himself into efforts to be free from these stressors. Z talks about trying to make it work with a girl and feeling totally broken as the reality of his sexual orientation started to kick-in. This confusion, along with the outset of the global pandemic, led h

  • Episode 779: Tonya Baker Miller, LCSW, Active LDS, Supporting Transgender Members and Their Families

    21/09/2024 Duración: 01h39min

    This episode is dedicated to the loving memory of JeNeal Nichol Miller, who passed away on Pioneer Day this year. She inspired everyone she knew to be nonjudgmental and Christlike. She was a true ally and is deeply missed. **This episode talks about suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text/chat 988** My friend Tonya Baker Miller (married mother of four, active LDS, Founder/Clinical Director of Cottonwood Counseling and Coaching) joins us to talk about supporting transgender/non-binary Latter-day Saints. Tonya has more than ten years of experience as a therapist working with transgender individuals, and also has transgender friends and family members about whom she cares deeply. Tonya talks about gospel principles, provides clinical perspectives, and offers ideas to help us better understand and support our transgender friends. Tonya addresses questions such as: “Is this a phase?”, “Is being transgender a disorder?”, “Is there a ‘cause,’ or do some people just ‘come with this?’”, and “What is i

  • Episode 778: Caysen Crum, Gay Latter-day Saint, Age 24, Self-Love/Acceptance

    17/09/2024 Duración: 01h40min

    **This episode talks about suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text/chat 988** My friend Caysen Crum (New Hampshire RM, Southern Utah University Grad, HXP Guide, Further Physician, Minersville Utah) joins us to share his story of doing everything he could to be “Mr. perfect and straight” (including serving a perfectly obedient mission, dating women, excelling at sports/academics) and how that eventually led to depression and suicidal ideation. Caysen talks of his love for everyone else—but how he had no love for himself. Caysen talks about hitting rock bottom with his decision to end his life and how a grandmother changed that decision. Caysen then talks about therapy (super helpful to end his internalized homophobia) and then powerful spiritual experiences while in Africa on an HXP trip including deep confirmation that God made Caysen gay—and that is a good thing allowing Caysen life mission of blessing others to be possible. Caysen also talks about how shame has no place in our lives and

  • Episode 777: Ben Bernards, LDS Father of Two Transgender Daughters

    13/09/2024 Duración: 01h40min

    My friend Ben Bernards (lives in Sacramento, RM, current Bishopric member, author, podcaster, EFY speaker, early 40s) joins us to share their family story. This story started with three children — a daughter and then two sons — but now continues with 3 daughters, as both of their sons are transgender. Ben talks about how he and his wife Megan are navigating this road to support their transgender and cisgender children, with powerful insights for anyone looking to support someone who is transgender Ben shares deeply spiritual experiences and powerful insights when each daughter came out at different stages in their lives, and the surprising feelings of calm and peace they felt each time. Ben talks about their goal to preserve the family relationships and walk with their transgender daughters—and also deeply spiritual experiences on how much our Heavenly Parents love Ben’s daughters—and how everyone is created in their image. Ben talks about how being “safe person” for them gave them courage to come

  • Episode 776: Michelle and Steve Shaw – Improving Church Culture for Members with Disabilities

    09/09/2024 Duración: 01h19min

    Michelle and Steve Shaw are the parents of four children, three of whom have been diagnosed with neurological disabilities, ranging from ADHD to anomalies in the brain. They are active members of the Church and live in the Seattle area; Michelle serves in her Stake Primary Presidency and Steve serves on the Stake High Council. Michelle is also a special education teacher, and teacher of the blind and visually impaired, so she brings additional perspective to the issues that members with disabilities face as they try to integrate with Church culture. I am grateful to Michelle and Steve, and vicariously to their children, for having the courage to start having conversations about ways that we can make sure that each member of the Church, regardless of their varying capacities, feels safe and seen in the Church setting. Michelle and Steve talk about starting their family and having all of the hopes that many of us have at that stage of life. They describe having certain assumptions about the role that the Chur

  • Episode 775: Rylee, Transgender Latter-day Saint, Brave Story

    05/09/2024 Duración: 01h20min

    My friend Rylee (he/they) joins us to share their story. Rylee (married father of 7, mid-40’s. RM, believing/active LDS, IT professional) talks about their feelings of gender dysphoria from their earliest memories. Rylee (who is doing the podcast to give others hope walking this road) talks about their journey of self-discovery, navigating faith and identity, lessons learned and hopes for the future. Rylee talks about things they are doing within the new transgender handbook policies to stay temple-worthy and to fully participate in the Church. At the same time, Rylee talks about the sacrifice to make this possible and also how the handbook can cause transgender members to feel like second class citizens. Rylee and I talk about how gender dysphoria is a recognized/established health issue with guidelines to feel better—and how staying fully active in the church takes some of those guidelines off the table. Rylee also talks about how his gender dysphoria is the bottom of the iceberg—but was pre

  • Episode 774: John Crane, Late 70s, RM, Believes in Gospel, Same-Sex Marriage

    01/09/2024 Duración: 01h16min

    My friend John Crane (lives in Austin TX, grew up in Oregon/Washington, Sweden RM 1966-68, married a woman, has 4 kids and many grandkids, divorced, been with husband Thom for over 35 years, no longer LDS), joins us to share his story being gay and a deep believer in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. John starts with his growing up years and finding his spiritual home in the Church and then serving a successful mission in Sweden. John talks about getting married to a woman (being more of a “church assignment”) and having 4 kids. John talks about that marriage ending and deciding to date men (which led to being excommunicated—John fulfilled a church assignment the night before). John talks about painful/messy experiences dating men (and being in unhealthy relationships) and continue to pray to God for direction. John talks about finding his husband Thom (also a RM) being the answer to his prayers (and Thom’s prayers) and how they built a life—and beautiful love story—together. John—a deeply emotion

  • Episode 773: Guillermo Lemus, Faith Crisis/Expansion, Staying LDS

    27/08/2024 Duración: 01h08min

    My friend Guillermo Lemus (age 30, BYU grad student, BYU-Idaho grad, married, RM) joins us to share his multi-year journey to process the complicated aspects of our Church and find a way to remain a member of the Church. In sharing his story, Guillermo normalizes a faith crisis/expansion (including all the pain one feels on this road) and what he (and other did) to help/support him. Guillermo uses the model of the “Garden/Fall/Redemption” to frame up a faith expansion in a positive and on-shaming way. Guillermo shares a beautiful poem (“Lord of the 4th Watch—see show notes) and also talks about self-love. If you are in faith expansion and want to find a way to authentically stay in the Church, Guillermo story will help you (it helps me!). And if you are looking to better support our good members walking this road, Guillermo story/insights will help you better support others. Thank you, Guillermo, for being on the podcast. You represent everything good about our Church and world. You are a go

  • Episode 772: Bryce Cook, LDS Father of Two Gay Sons, Longtime Ally

    22/08/2024 Duración: 01h19min

    My friend and mentor Bryce Cook (married, father of 6 children/7 grandchildren) joins us to talk about how he and his wife Sara navigated the road of having two gay sons (which started in 2003 when their son Trevor came out as gay). Bryce talks about how his worldview of gay people dramatically changed upon learning his good/talented/spiritual son is gay. Bryce talks about Trevor “wanting companionship” just like he saw with his parents (Trevor married his husband Ben in 2023). Their third son Tanner also came out as gay after he saw how his family responded to Trevor’s coming out. Bryce talks about deep spiritual promptings that he and Sara needed to do something with the knowledge they gained and not be silent, which led to the formation of All Arizona in 2012. Bryce talks about how their home became a safe place for queer Latter-day Saints and the resulting spiritual/sacred experiences that followed—and how the annual All Arizona conferences provided support/community to LGBTQ members and education/u

  • Episode 771: Seth Price, Recent RM, Gay Latter-day Saint

    17/08/2024 Duración: 01h03min

    ** Trigger Warning. This episode talks about suicide. If you are suicidal, please call, test, chat 988 ** My friend Seth Price (Canadian, Age 20, Service Missionary) joins us to bravely share his story. Seth talks about dealing with and then accepting being called on a service mission (finished July 2024) when he always wanted to serve a proselyting mission. Seth talks about learning how to accept his circumstances because of his desire to serve Christ and help others come unto Christ and feel His love and acceptance. Seth talks about how he learned “he is not meant to fit the mold” and how that allows him to help love and support others—and help them find Christ. Seth talks about his journey to accept being gay through middle school and high school (including times when he went back in the closet given the reactions of others). Seth talks about his hopes for the future and his love of our Savior. Seth also talks about his brother Kaleb who died of suicide in 2022 and how he is navigating los

  • Episode 770: Lori LeVar Pierce, President Exponent II, LGBTQ Ally, Feminist, Active LDS

    07/08/2024 Duración: 01h12min

    My friend Lori LeVar Pierce (grew up in the South, BA and MBA from BYU, corporate executive, married mother of three, teacher, lives in Columbus, Mississippi) joins us to introduce listeners to Exponent II—which is celebrating its 50th anniversary. Lori talks about the purpose of Exponent II (including a quarterly magazine, a blog, annual retreat) as it supports Mormon women and gender minorities. Lori also shares insights for other Latter-day Saints who are navigating the sometimes-complex road of career, family, marriage, and church participation—including where women’s voices sometimes are not fully sought after or valued. Lori also talks about how to best support her three children—all of which are queer—including a transgender (they/them) child, and two bisexual children. I was so moved with Lori’s perspective and principals to help other parents support their queer kids. This family story is a beautiful love story. Thank you, Lori, for being on the podcast. Your mature and thoughtful

  • Episode 769: Jessie Salter and Jett Atwood, Same-Sex Marriage, Attending Church

    02/08/2024 Duración: 01h12min

    My friends Jessica Salter and Jett Atwood (gay Latter-day Saint women in a same-sex marriage, attend and believe in Church) join us to share their stories. Jett & Jessie (who were married on June 15, 2024) talk about their supportive ward in Utah County (including their bishopric attending their reception) and being so fortunate to have many in their ward “catch” them. Jett (who is older than Jessie; Washington DC South RM, gifted cartoonist) talks about her journey to accept that her sexual orientation is part of her divine nature. Jessie (mother of 3 kids, former adjunct professor at BYU) also talks about accepting her sexual orientation and how they found each other. Both women talk about their supportive ward, principles to better support queer Latter-day Saints, the resurrection, focusing on what is in their control, their love of the church, and the beauty of their marriage and family. Thank you, Jessie and Jett, for sharing your story. You are two wonderful women—doing much to bless and he

  • Episode 768: Sarah and Jeff Case, Gather Conference, Gather For Youth

    27/07/2024 Duración: 01h16min

    My friends Sarah and Jeff Case (mixed-orientation marriage, active LDS, two queer kids) join us to update listeners on their story, share principles to keep families together, and the new Gather for Youth (ages 14-18) at the Gather Conference (Sept 13-14th, 2024). Sarah (middle school teacher, straight) and Jeff (clinical psychologist, gay) talk about a “process versus outcome” perspective to raising kids, focusing on preserving the relationship, and finding peace when children step away from the Church. Sarah and Jeff also talk about the new Gather for Youth (purpose, focus, who is invited, scope of activities, etc) that is for queer youth (and their friends/allies) to help them feel loved, supported and hopeful. I was so moved listening to Sarah and Jeff (a beautiful family love story) and hearing about Gather for Youth (so excited for this group)—and all the many insights to help better support queer Latter-day Saints and their families as we work to better create Zion. Thank you, Sarah and Je

  • Episode 767: Brenden Krogh, Gay Latter-day Saint, Christ’s Ability to Bring Hope

    22/07/2024 Duración: 01h04min

    My friend Brenden Krogh (age 25, grew up in Grantsville/Mona Utah, Lives in St George, Active LDS, RM) joins us to share his story. Brenden talks about his journey to understand and accept being gay and the role of his Heavenly Parents and the Savior in this process—including personal revelation that he is created as intended and he should feel no shame for being gay. Brenden talks about his supportive family (so many powerful examples), church leaders/members, and friends to love, accept, and support him. Brenden talks about how their love and support helped him to do the same. Brenden talks about personal revelation through music, church talks, and scriptures to hear God’s love/voice in his life. He talks about a YSA Ward that made the focus not to get married—but to help everyone come unto Christ. Brenden talks about the helpful things people do/say when he opens up about the complexity of his situation. If you are a queer Latter-day Saint wondering how our Heavenly Parents feel about you and

  • Episode 766: Sarah and Josh Sabey - @forlittlesaints, New Book: Book of Mormon Storybook

    17/07/2024 Duración: 51min

    This episode is guest-hosted by Tonya Miller. Tonya interviews Sarah and Josh Sabey, who run For Little Saints (@forlittlesaints). Sarah and Josh share the experiences they've had in creating their newest publication, "The Book of Mormon Storybook." Sarah and Josh talk about wishing that they had a way to share the scriptures with their children that would help them connect more deeply. They recognized that the more traditional way of storytelling from the scriptures, which has often been based on teaching sequences of events or memorizing names and places, can omit some of the more relatable, human, elements of the stories. Sarah and Josh highlight some specific examples from the Book of Mormon that follow character arcs. This way of looking at people, or Peoples, in the Book of Mormon ensures that we do not define them by one story, or one single moment in their history. Taking the long view, or being able to zoom in and then zoom out, can provide perspectives about spiritual growth, and emphasize real w

  • Episode 765: Lilly MacKenzie, Transgender Latter-day Saint, BYU Student

    10/07/2024 Duración: 57min

    My friend Lilly MacKenzie (3rd year BYU student) joins us to share her story. Lilly talks about her journey (starting in her early years) realizing she was different and gradually developing the vocabulary, understanding, and person insights to realize she is transgender. Lilly talks about how she feels so much better being her authentic self. Lilly talks about all that BYU is doing to support transgender students (she is having a good experience) and all her ward/church leaders are doing to support her (also a good experience). Lilly talks about her love of and belief in the temple—even though she currently can’t attend. I was so impressed listening to and learning from Lilly—and better realize the importance of hearing multiple stories from our transgender friends. They are Israel, need to be gathered with our kind comments, and help us create Zion. Thank you, Lilly, for being on the podcast. You are very brave. You help others walking this road and the rest of us wanting to do better.

  • Episode 764: Austin Peterson, Gay Latter-day Saint, Gather Conference, Gather For Youth

    03/07/2024 Duración: 01h14min

    My friend Austin Peterson (Ghana RM, BYU Grad, FSY Leader, Gather Event Coordinator) joins us to share his story. Austin starts with his journey to accept being gay and gradually coming out (including as a Bishopric member during his testimony). Austin talks about the good experiences and the painful experiences being open in his Latter-day Saint community. Austin talks his work as an FSY Leader and the principles to help Latter-day Saint youth feel needed and belonging. Austin talks about his decision to step away from the Church—following his experiences over several years of being hurt, being on the edge of the next hurt, drain of minority stress, wondering who in the congregation has said hurtful things, and finding Sunday as being his most draining day. I realize some of our best members step away and honor their decision with love and support. Austin—full of desire to help queer youth—talks about the upcoming Gather conference (Sept 2024) and the new Youth Track (Gather for Youth) and w

  • Episode 763: Spencer Smith, Gay Latter-day Saint

    26/06/2024 Duración: 01h09min

    My friend Spencer Smith (age 31, ER attending pharmacist, BYU grad, active LDS) join us to share his story. Spencer (oldest of five; grew up in Sacramento) talks his journey to accept his sexual orientation and coming out to others. Spencer talks about not being able to make dating work with women and managing the sometimes painful cultural expectations to date and marry. Spencer talks about deciding that is not going to work for him (or her) and gradually coming out to others (including a very good experience with his brother and then later with his family). Spencer talks about his decision to attend Gather in 2023 (felt a lot of anxiety beforehand) and how that transforming experience helped him understand that he can be both gay and a Latter-day Saint. Spencer ended up volunteering at Gather and talks about the importance of support and community. Spencer talks about the joy of having his mother attend with him and all the conversations that shared experience created. Spencer talks about fee

  • Episode 762: Todd (gay) and Tanya (straight) Hughes, Recently Divorced, Staying Close

    20/06/2024 Duración: 01h07min

    My friends Todd and Tanya Hughes (live in Ventura County CA, married for 29 years, recently divorced, still best friends) join us to share their story. Todd (who recently turned 50) shares his background growing up gay in the church, and all the shame and self-hate that came with that. Todd and Tanya met on their missions and ended up getting married, after Todd told her he was gay during their courtship. Todd talks about how church teachings have evolved and how raising a queer and transgender son helped Todd learn that he is an intentionally created gay Son of God, and that God loves all of him. Over the past few years, that has led Todd and Tanya to a decision to end their marriage—but remain friends (including still sitting on the same church pew together). Tanya and Todd talk about their beautiful marriage, parenting a transgender son, and how they continue to help/support each other. Both Tanya and Todd have insights to support spouses of mixed-orientation marriages and better support/love/u

  • Episode 761: Dr. Jeremy Kerrigan, Age 40, Gay Latter-day Saint, Recently Out

    15/06/2024 Duración: 01h08min

    **This podcast mentions suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text chat 988** My friend Jeremy Kerrigan (LDS convert, married father of 5, Arizona native, Chiropractor, photographer) joins us to share his story. Jeremy talks about being aware of this same-sex attraction most of his life but not fully addressing it until he came out to his wife in late 2023 (good experience). Once that box was open, Jeremy talks about his journey of deconstructing and then reconstructing his life going forward. Much of that included dark days of depression, anxiety and considering suicide. Jeremy also shares all his efforts (and other good people in his life) to help him find hope again and to better understand who he was created to be. Jeremy talks about getting in a healthier space with hope, peace, and also receiving powerful personal revelation that “God loves gay Jeremy.” Jeremy talks about fully accepting himself and how that takes away shame and allows him to be authentic. Jeremy talks about how we

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