Listen, Learn & Love Hosted By Richard Ostler

My friend Autumn McAlpin (married mother of 5) shares the story of her 17-year-old son, Gavin, walking into her bedroom at 3:00 am telling her and her husband and he that “he is gay, leaving the church, and really struggling with depression… like, really.” A lot has happened since that night two and a half years ago—which Autumn shares on the podcast and in her new book to support Gavin. It is a beautiful and powerful family love story. Autumn, a noted author and filmmaker, decided to write a book about their experience. In November 2022, that book, But Jesus: A Conversation, was published by Pink Umbrella Books with Gavin’s permission (see below for Amazon book link). Autumn talks about the book in the podcast, and all proceeds from sales will be donated to life-saving therapy programs for LGBTQ+ at Encircle and Flourish Therapy. I encourage everyone to listen to this podcast and read Autumn’s book. I have read it—it is a powerful family story of how we can do better so support families wit

In this episode, my friend Dr. Jennifer Finlayson-Fife (Ph.D. in Counseling Psychology, active LDS) joins us to share details of her professional journey. She tells us more about her time at BYU and how she shifted from following cultural expectations to following her heart and talents, which led to her earning her Master’s Degree, followed by a Ph.D., and eventually, opening her own practice. She shares how her work has grown past her original hopes and expectations and talks about why she decided to stay a Latter-day Saint. Her story is a powerful one and will inspire younger (and even older!) Latter-day Saints to pursue their passions and believe in their potential. Dr. Finlayson-Fife also shares insights about creating healthy boundaries, and how those boundaries can help us maintain a healthier relationship with the Church. She also shares ways that we can create more belonging at church—so that more will feel welcome, included, and needed as we create Zion. I was deeply moved by this conversation

My friend Brian Paul (married, father of 4, active LDS) joins us to share the story of his older brother Boyd dying by suicide at the age of 25 in 1989. It tells a powerful story of hope and the far-reaching promises of the atonement and the power to redeem. Brian, who is about 7 years younger than Boyd, talks about his love for his brother. Boyd changed a few years after returning home from his mission when he went down a difficult road trying to reconcile his sexual orientation. Feeling rejected by God for not helping him overcome same gender attraction, difficulty in achieving ideal relationships with other gay men, being fired by his employer, and not being fully accepted and understood by family, led to Boyd taking his own life by jumping off the William Howard Taft Bridge in Feb 1989. Brian talks about his journey to understand and love his brother including a powerful spiritual experience walking on the William Howard Taft Bridge in 2014 with his daughter, that reflects the infinite power of t

My friends Jeralee Renshaw and Peter Ryan (active Latter-day Saints) talk about a facebook group called Waters of Mormon for Latter-day Saints who need a safe place to process complicated church topics (history, current issues, or difficult experiences). Members of the group are working to stay engaged with the Church. Jeralee and Peter (two of the moderators of the group) talk about vetting criteria to be able to join the group (including being familiar with the Gospel Topic Essays), group mission, and rules of the group. They also share some of about their story navigating difficult topics and why they stay members of the Church. I joined this group in 2016 during my mini-faith crisis and it was key for me to reconstruct a sustainable framework to remain an active member of the Church. If you are working to stay in the Church and also looking for a safe place to process complicated church topics, please listen to this podcast. It will help you decide if this group would be helpful for you. And

My friend Tyler Johnson (married father of 3, active LDS, Oncologist and Assistant Professor Stanford Medical School), joins us to talk about principles that can help build a long-term foundation to remain in the Church and process the complicated topics (history, prophetic infallibility, imperfect members, etc) Tyler shares his upbring where his father didn’t create a fairly-tale type narrative of our church history—but on honest discussion about the warts that are part of the beautiful restoration of the gospel. Because of this, Tyler didn’t ever have to deconstruct and then reconstruct—it has always been about construction. For Tyler (and I believe many others) this is a more sustainable framework to move forward as a Latter-day Saint. He also talks about the love present in his home that help form his feelings about his Heavenly Parents and their love for all of us. It also created a safe environment to process honest questions. Tyler shares his vision for what each of us can to in our area of in

My friend Lynn Patten (married mother of 4, active LDS, RM) shares her journey through depression that started when she was on her mission. Lynn talks about how Church became a difficult place for her, mainly because she could no longer feel the Spirit—but how she worked to continue to be an active Latter-day Saint by learning how to hear God’s voice again. Lynn shares how she connects with the Spirit in different ways and how she has found spiritual healing amidst her mental illness and wrote a book called “Hear Him: How to Hear the Spirit When You Suffer From Depression” The book is available on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BJC9QJWR If you are working to understand and manage mental illness, or know someone who is, please listen to Lynn’s podcast, and read her book. I believe it will help you. Thank you, Lynn, for being on the podcast and your good work in our community.

My friends Joni and Phil Broderick (parents of four) and their gay son Kyle (recent BYU graduate) join us from their home in Virginia to share their story. Kyle talks about his journey to address and resolve being gay and LDS which reached a crossroads on his mission in Africa where he decided to end his mission and return home. Kyle’s parents learned—in a jolting message—that their son was gay and coming home from his mission. Kyle talks about his experiences at BYU (some good and some difficult) and deciding to step away from the Church. Joni and Phil talk about being on the receiving side of Kyle’s message and how they navigated this new reality. They talk about their path to learn how to support Kyle and address their fears—which included reading books, listening to podcasts, and prayer. Joni talks about coming to Utah to attend a NorthStar conference and learning as she arrived in Utah that Kyle was participating in a rally at BYU regarding the honor code changes. Joni talks about her deci

My friend Bryson Lind (early 30s, Active LDS, Single, Undergrad in Psychology, Masters in Mental Health Counseling) joins us to share his journey as a gay Latter-day Saint. Bryson talks about the growing up years, his mission, and returning to college. Bryson talks about feeing “monstrous and dark” inside because of his feelings towards men in spite of giving everything on his mission. He talks about coming out to a Bishop and BYU-I (not a good experience) and then being suicidal and the positive/lifesaving experience coming out to his Bishop at Utah State Bryson talks about many positive experiences at BYU (community, professors, friends, and committees) and his supportive YSA leaders during his graduate work in Denver. Bryson also talks about, in a deeply moving segment, reconstructing his relationship with Heavenly Father including “the person you think I am, isn’t the person I am.” Bryson talks about his clinical work at the Marriage and Family Clinic in Spanish Fork (link in the show notes

My friend Al Carraway (who was on Episode 114, convert, married mother of 3) joins us to talk about her two new #1 Amazon Best Seller books called: My Dear Little One: https://www.amazon.com/My-Dear-Little-One-Carraway/dp/1462143636/ Finding Yourself in the New Testament: https://www.amazon.com/Yourself-Testament-Spiritually-Uplifting-Carraway/dp/146214361X Al shares her insights into our Heavenly Parents and Jesus and Their role in our lives to love, support, and help us. She talks about Their character and ability to bless our lives. Al talks about “More Jesus” is the path to healing and bring us together. I encourage everyone to check out this podcast and read/share Al’s new book. It will help you feel the love and support of Jesus in your life. I was deeply moved listening to Al and her fresh insights and perspectives to help all of us. Thank you Al for your wonderful and needed work in our community. You can find more about Al at www.alcarraway.com

My friend Steven Kapp Perry (host on Classical89.org and the “In Good Faith” podcast, married father of four, songwriter, and playwright) joins us to share his story as a gay Latter-day Saint. Steve shares being out for decades to his dear wife Johanne and then recently deciding to come out more broadly to family and close friends. Steve talks about how he has navigated painful church experiences, found his worth/stability in his relationship with Heavenly Father and Jesus, and his love for his wife Johanne. Steve talks about how we can do better (within our doctrine) to better support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints and reminds us these good members are in our ward/family circles citing a recent BYU survey where 13% of students indicated they are something “other than straight”. Steve talks about the March 2023 Tour of Israel he is directing for LGBTQ folks and their families, friends, and allies. I encourage you to check this out (see link in show notes). Thank you, Steve for being on the podcast and all you

My friend Karl Beckstrand (single, active LDS writer in his mid-50s) shares his story about being exposed to gay sex at a young age and contending for years between God’s will and how he was relating with others. He learned that nothing takes God by surprise, that God can empower us to live our most fulfilling lives, and that everything can be consecrated to our joy—now and forever. Karl discovered that God won’t take our social needs away, but he can help us meet them in profound and lasting ways. This is a great resource for anyone with questions about faith and LGBTQIA topics. Karl shares more in his book called More Than 2 Paths: Biblical Secrets to Living Your Most Fulfilling LGBTQIA Life. Thank you, Karl, for being on the podcast. Your story will help so many. Thanks for your courage to share it. I encourage others to listen to this episode and read your book. Karl will be signing books Saturday, Nov. 19 (2-5 p.m.) at Marissa's Books & Gifts located 3302 S. 900 E., Salt Lake City, Utah Li

My friend Suzanne Stott (mother to ten adopted children, in her 70’s, active Latter-day Saints) shares her lifelong service to marginalized groups of people (homeless, incarcerated, refugees, queer, etc) as an active Latter-day Saint. Suzanne was the Grand Marshall of the Utah Pride Parade in 2022. Suzanne talks about following her heart to reach out to those walking a more difficult road and work to improve their lives. He also talks about her testimony of our restored gospel and her prayers for changes in our Church. She talks about her has navigated multiple faith crisis over the years. If you are looking for a season and mature voice navigating complicated issues in our Church around social issues (race, women, queer), please listen to Suzanne’s story. And if you feel drawn to make a difference in our community, please listen to Suzanne’s story—she will give you gospel principles to figure out how best to do this in your unique way. It is an honor to have you on the podcast Suzanne. Thank

My friend Clare Dalton joins us to bravely share her story. Clare grew up and lives in Arizona, served as a missionary in the Spain Barcelona Mission, earned a Linguistics degree from the University of Arizona, and now teaches high school seminary as a CES employee. Clare talks about her decision to come out in this public Facebook post in October of 2021: https://www.facebook.com/clare.dalton.71/posts/pfbid02QKAncqLVxmKc4fWAfiZkYc86pdzZMJoykaU2FZH94qkvNMBbKL1ej1SofXMgYoa6l Clare talks about her testimony of the love of our Heavenly Parents and the role of the Savior in our lives. Clare talks about principles to better support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints and create belonging. Some of the subjects Clare discusses are how silence sends a loud message, making choices out of faith vs. fear, creating Zion, caring more about truth than gossip, and creating safe spaces. This is a powerful podcast. Clare is a pioneer in a space that hasn’t been walked. If you are a queer Latter-day Saint or someone who wants to bett

My friend Sister Nancy Smith, who is in her 7th year serving in the California Anaheim Mission, shares her story. Nancy (married mother of 4 children, 13 grandchildren, and 4 great-grand children) talks about her own mental health journey during her early years of marriage and her path to healing. Nancy talks about her work to help and support full-time missionaries in her mission with their emotional health. It is a wonderful insight into the vast network of seasoned Latter-day Saints working to support full-time Latter-day Saint missionaries. If you are working to solve mental illness or help others, Nancy's podcast will help you. Thank you, Nancy for your much needed work. Links referenced in the podcast: https://nimh.nih.gov (National Institute of Mental Health) National Institute of Mental Health Resource Center (866-615-6464) (Monday through Friday 8:30 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. ET) Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services National Helpline (800-662-4357) https://medlineplus.gov Suicide

My friend Char Ahlstrom (active LDS, Married Mother of 6, Grandmother of 6, Convert) shares her story of having three of her six children leave the church. Char and her husband Tom raised their six children teaching the gospel and serving in their Long Beach Ward and Stake—with hope their children would stay active members of the church and raise their children in the Church. But things turned out differently as Char shares having her 4th child (Kyle) come out as gay. Then her 6th child (Keith) also came out as gay. Both Kyle and Keith have stepped away from the Church and are in long-term relationships with men. Char also had another son and daughter-in-law out of the Church. Char, who has been on this road for many years, has helpful insights for parents new to this road. She shares going from fear to peace—and from loving to accepting to action. Char talks about how prayer, scripture study, being open to learning, temple attendance and the atonement of Jesus Christ has given her personal

This is a solo podcast for my friend wanting to repent and for parents/local leaders/friends looking to better help them. It is based on Chapter 5 called “Hope-Filled Repentance” from my book “Listen, Learn and Love: Improving Latter-day Saint Culture”. I hope and pray this podcast is helpful to you. All my love, Richard Links mentioned in the podcast: Richard Ostler Book: Deseret Book: https://deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-love and Amazon: amazon.com/dp/1462139566 Richard Ostler Ensign Article: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/08/young-adults/how-the-saviors-healing-power-applies-to-repenting-from-sexual-sin?lang=eng

My friend Dr. Ryan Gottfredson (active LDS, married father of two, leadership and management professor at the College of Business and Economics at California State University-Fullerton) joins us to talk about his Leading Saints article called “The Root Cause for Why Members Leave the Church and What Leaders Can Do About It”. In this article Ryan shares facts about why people leave the Church and what ministering tools we can use to help people who want to find a way to stay be able to stay. Ryan brings his professional work into this space discussing adults development stages and how a “faith crisis” should be framed in a positive way as growth and “vertical development”. Ryan opens up about some of his difficult experiences and how he has able to move forward. This is a powerful podcast. I learned so much. If you are in a “faith crisis” please listen to his podcast. If you are a Latter-day Saint and want better ministering tools to help you fellow Latter-day Saints with honest questions and to be

My friend Crystal Bowman (active LDS, Mother of six, Marriage and Family Therapist) joins us to share some thoughts on how to talk to our kids about sex from a shame-free approach. The podcast provides new perspectives and helpful tools to begin to talk about sex in an age-appropriate way to be intentional and normalize these conversations in our homes. Crystal teaches this is not a one-time conversation—but an ongoing dialogue with our children that continues as they age up into adulthood. If you are looking for better tools to teach sex education in your home, please listen to Crystal’s insights. It will help you. If you are a local leader wanting to improve your ability to talk about and teach on this subject, this podcast will help you. I wish I had listened to a podcast like this 30 years ago. When we know better, we do better. Thank you, Crystal, for your needed voice and work in our community. I encourage everyone to listen and share this podcast. Links mentioned in the podcast:

My friend Amberly June Bean (gay, active LDS, lo married mother of one; late 20’s) joins us to bravely share her story. Amberly, who grew up in Idaho Falls, talks about knowing she was gay and eventually coming out to her mother (good experience). She talks about the shame and suicidal ideation she felt during this time and not wanting to disappoint her Heavenly Parents by being gay. Amberly talks about the good experience of serving a mission (Nashville, Tennessee) which included coming out to her Mission President. Amberly talks about not participating in the Church for a time and dating women after her mission—but then returning to the church. Amberly, in an unexpected turn, talks about falling in love and marrying her husband, Kendall. Amberly talks about why she decided to come out more broadly via this podcast and her work with Lift and Love to help with support groups for queer youth. Thank you Amberly for being on the podcast. You are brave and awesome. Your story will help so many.

My friend Liz Kazandzhy (married mother of 3, active LDS, podcaster) joins us to talk about her new book focused on helping us better unlock the power of the Holy Ghost to have more spiritual experiences, make better decisions, and feel more hope. Liz (taking each letter of the alphabet) shares how the Holy Ghost can help and guide us. She also shares some personal stories, including working through depression, anxiety, and self-doubt. If you are looking for better tools to unwrap the power of the Holy Ghost, I encourage you to listen to this episode and check out her book. Thank you, Liz, for your wonderful work in our community! Links mentioned in the podcast: The Holy Ghost from A to Z: https://www.amazon.com/Holy-Ghost-What-Spirit-Can/dp/1462142745/ or https://deseretbook.com/p/the-holy-ghost-from-a-to-z Liz’s Podcast: https://ldsbooknook.com/ Liz’s Website: https://lizkazandzhy.com/ Liz’s Podcast Interview on The Cultural Hall: https://www.theculturalhallpodcast.com/2022/09/11/liz-kazandh